I watched the teaser for this show tonight and loved it. Anyone else see it?

I love Tim
I was bored stiff the entire time & thought her final Trench coat/dress l made her look dumpy, loved her hair makeover though.
Total bummer because I really wanted to love it.

I guess my standards are low. I love a makeover.

I was bored but I love a makeover too & I'm enough of a Tim gunn whore to watch again
Being a Xena fan, I obviously have no standards at all
Cheap whore with no standards yup, that's me.

I really enjoyed it-especially the time and energy they spent getting her to work on her self-image.

I think it's fantastic for the woman involved!

I only saw about 5 minutes of 2 episodes so far so I can't really judge. I do know that what I loved about Tim Gunn were his comments about design as the fashion designers worked on Project Runway. I will really miss that if he isn't part of the new season.

Well, here's something cool! My husband watched this show with me, and now that he sees how dressing well is important to those women, and that their men support it, he's been encouraging me to get nice clothes for this fall/winter using Tim Gunn's list. On Saturday we bought an awesome, expensive dress in San Francisco: first item down ("day dress"). I'll keep you posted.

Good work, golden*girl!

I hate makeover shows in general but I really liked this. Of course, I'd watch Tim Gunn read the dictionary because I think he has excellent taste and is an adorable man, so maybe I'm a little biased.

I think Tim is a gentleman--and an exhilarating combination of slick and sincere. If that's even possible.

Today I got the trench coat, the black dress, the white shirt, and the classic trousers. All my own versions of these things, of course.

So I can't help noticing that the three (?) women I've seen made over on this show all had some serious self-esteem problems. Feeling fat is a huge issue with all of them, and Tim has to tell them they have good figures. Most of them haven't ever felt beautiful. Most of them don't want to be looked at. It starts to come together into a fairly unpleasant picture of women in the United States today, honestly.

Last night, Tim referred to "the slobbification of America." And he has a good point. People where I live now and where I lived last dress incredibly casually, but generally not neatly. They look almost unpresentable. It's certainly not empowering to anyone. What do you think is behind this trend?

Totally agree. I love the way he works on these things with them. Yet another reason to love Tim Gunn. Last night's episode was particularly sad; I felt like the girl really felt ashamed of her body.

Laziness.

^^^^ Laziness. Okay, Tyler, you harsh-ie! Maybe so. But maybe not in all cases?

I've kept pondering this.

Yesterday I went to the Galleria nearest my house (not a huge fan of shopping malls, but there's some stuff I need there). My kid wanted to jump around in an area with play structures. I looked around at the many moms (and a few dads) there. Just like in the show with the mom who has a closet full of tees and capris, almost every one of these women was wearing this unflattering garb.

But ... I can't assume these women were lazy, somehow. One woman, whose outfit was unflattering but who was not in the standard capri ensemble, looked so incredibly tired and stressed (a state I recognize well, because as a working mother I've often been in it). She was trying to be alert and positive for her child, but every so often, her eyes would start to close, and then she would rouse herself back to full consciousness. I've so been there.

So maybe those women weren't lazy, so much as overworked, with no time to attend to their own needs. I've been there, too, and sometimes still am there.

Another thing is that if you go to a lower-end department store like Kohl's or Mervyn's or JCPenney, where middle-class moms often shop, you will find heaps of terrible garments offered to them. A look around the store might mislead one into thinking that capris and tees and lame jeans--and the completely segregated church dresses and career separates--are how we are supposed to dress.

So here's a scenario: women buy these clothes, which are easy to find, but they don't feel good in them. To remedy the situation, they buy more clothes, but the new stuff is not much unlike the old stuff. They end up with closets full of stuff that doesn't look good. With so much to choose from, yet nothing that flatters, they assume that the problem is with themselves, with their own bodies. (After all, a teenager can wear pretty much any old crap and look good.)

I agree with this, but I also think there's something else involved. I belong to a Dinner Club. This is a group of professionals who entertain each other in our homes with dinner (not gourmet), wines, conversation, etc. Last month I wore a skirt to the dinner and you'd think that I had committed a crime! Excuse me for looking nice or put together! I have found, in some circles, if one woman grooms herself everyday, she becomes an outcast.

I've never driven a minivan, I don't shop in sweats, I always comb my hair and put on at least sunglasses and lipstick before I subject others to seeing me. But this isn't okay with some people.

I TOTALLY agree! Not too long ago, I switched from a workplace where everyone dressed to the nines every day, to one where people are lucky if they remember to put on pants. When I first started working at the new job I made the mistake of wearing a dress to work (the same kind of dress most women in my former workplaces had worn -- cute, but totally work-appropriate). Seriously, you would think I had killed someone.

That said, this environment has totally rubbed off on me and now I am just lazy.

So I think it is probably a combination of both.

MC and Soho, just curious ... how did people let you know that they disapproved of you being better dressed than they were? Did they make actual comments, or what?

I find this fascinating.

Well, I don't know about you, MC, but for me it is usually something like, "Well! You're very dressed up today!"

or sometimes it's "Wow, how much did THAT handbag/those shoes cost?"

Some people who ask these things might be genuinely curious but other times these things are said in a clearly disapproving tone. Sometimes, if the woman is really bitchy, she might also make a comment about how she "used to have time to follow fashion" but now has "other priorities" or "more important things to spend her money on." (This one used to happen a lot more when I was single and the woman who said it was married. I would like to say it's because I'm less threatening now, but I think it's just that I dress crappier now that I'm married. LOL. Anyway, this still happens a lot to some of my single friends. ) I am all for not following fashion if it doesn't interest you but I'm not a fan of the condescending comments.

I think this really depends a lot on the environment. When I used to have the stereotypical Manhattan job fabulous clothes were the norm and if anything people who were UNDER dressed would get the snarky comments. So I was more used to dressing up all the time and this kind of thing would happen more at like baby showers or parties and stuff. Now I have adapted to my much more casual work environment and have to dress up more for other stuff which feels like a chore. Back to the laziness thing again.

Hmmm. I think I know what you're talking about, but for some reason, I've rarely received direct comments on my clothing my whole life through, except for occasional compliments. (Which does not mean that I don't dress really crappily sometimes.) Maybe in the places where I've lived, rude comments on women's clothing choices aren't so acceptable? Or maybe there's something about me (some people find me standoffish) that doesn't invite these comments?

Since I don't fit in where I live and am viewed as an outsider no matter whutt I do, it doesn't really matter much to me anymore if my clothing is different from other people's. And I can't help thinking of how Mr. golden*girl, who used to be a teacher, caught (good-natured) flak for wearing a tie and jacket to work every day. He didn't change how he dressed; the students respected him; and now he is the boss. So I say fooey on the detractors.

That said, now that I think about it, I did work in one environment where uber-casual was the norm and dressing well would have been a faux pas, because of a general poverty consciousness and anti-snootiness there.

I like to wear dresses (and I mean casual dresses, like a knit tank dress--not something you'd wear to a law office in Manhattan) and whenever my mother-in-law would see me in one (for lunch on a weekend or whatever) she'd make that comment "Well, you're looking dressed up today" in the tone that suggests "why on EARTH" would you want to dress up. And to be honest, I thought I looked pretty shlubby, but whatever. After 9 years, she no longer makes those comments to my face. She's learned that her style and mine might be drastically different but I love her son so it's ok

I work in research which can be very casual. I interview patients on many days, so I want to look nice but at the same time I don't want to be unapproachable and off-putting. It's hard enough to dress for your office environment without having to take into consideration your "client" as well. Geez. It's hard being a modern woman

Yes, it's the tone. Or they'll apologize for how they look when they honestly look fine. When my kids were in school, I noticed that the mothers were also in their own "school mentality." I was an outcast, I certainly wasn't one of them. And they let me know it. I can't really explain how they do it, but they do. It's like when you're not chosen for someone's team on the playground. They all used no makeup and wore sweats or shorts and tanks. Hair was either bedhead or a pony tail. They ran the PTA and all of the classroom social events. And if you weren't one of them, then you were nobody!

I dress for myself. It's my own standard. I'm not anal about it. Some days I'm totally shabby, but nowadays, I think before getting dressed and although I LOVE skirts, I don't wear them as much. It's sad really, because I love clothes. I love the artsy part of making up an outfit (and I'm really conservative). I like looking pulled together. I think it's sign of respect to everyone else who has to share a space with me. Plus, I'm one of those horrid Virgos and we hate being criticized by anyone. We already do that to ourselves before we ever leave the house!

Not sure if any of this made sense.

I have very similar experiences - most of the female attorneys in my office dress VERY casually and frumpily when they are not going to court (when they dress in frumpy suits). And I've been the recipient of the "gee, wish I had the time / money to dress nicely" or the "wow, you are so dressed up" comments. It doesn't help that boyfriend's ex is an absolutely horrifically bad dresser - although she always has something new - and that she and the pseudo in-laws always comment about my apparent spare time / spare money. Bleh. But if I nominated her for "What Not to Wear" (in her case it should be what TO wear: a damned bra!), I'd be the bitch. Sigh.

Of course, I also get the "wish I had the time" comments when I pull my lunch out of the work fridge, so...

Well, it made sense to me! My son is still preschool age, and I notice that most of the moms, all except one, dress pitifully. Slightly different version of things than where you live/d, but basically jeans, ponytail, no makeup, etc. I know that many of them do not work outside the home, and in that case, there's not a lot of incentive to dress well. But as you say, about dressing for yourself and meeting your own standards, it says something about one's self-esteem.

I'm mostly self-employed but am also working a little (with children) this school year. It's very important to me not to dress badly and be ungroomed in front of all those children. I want them to respect me, and also show them that I respect them. As well as demonstrate what I think is an appropriate adult standard of self-care!

My husband is a Virgo, too, quite meticulous about how he dresses. (I'm a Leo, and I identify more with the artsy aspects of dressing you mentioned but have major Virgo stuff in my chart, so maybe there's a connection there, too. )

I'm with you there Of course, it probably takes me less time to make my dinner (I bring leftovers for lunch the next day) than it takes people to leave the office and wait in line to buy lunch......

Do people really not have time to make dinner, or do a lot of them just not know how (or how to do it efficiently)? Do they really not have time to get dressed in something presentable, or do they need to be taught how to, like in this Tim Gunn show?

Because by the time Tim is done with these women's closets, there's not much in them. Having fewer, better pieces of clothing that one can depend on should make getting dressed go more quickly, shouldn't it?

Seriously. My lunch is usually either leftovers from dinner the night before or something I prepped quickly on Sunday afternoon after grocery shopping. I hate wasting time, money and calories on mediocre food when I can bring my own!



I think some people are lazy or just don't like cooking or shopping, and exploit somewhat valid excuses (like children, busy jobs, etc.) beyond all reason. Something has to be cut from the daily agenda, so they choose the things they don't like rather than cutting TV time, other recreation, etc. I know I find it really easy to postpone cleaning my home office and dealing with bills. With some people, some what seems like "laziness" could be a manifestation of chronic depression. Other people just flat out do not have taste (e.g. the woman who insisted on dressing like she was 21).

You'd think that with the advent of the Food Channel, people would be cooking more. Apparently not. When I know I need to get dressed early in the morning and look great for a meeting or something, I choose the outfit the night before and hang everything on the closet door. It's not rocket science, it's just planning ahead. I think it all boils down to much more personal issues - do we deserve this or that? Are we okay with being different from the norm? (Norm being dressing like everyone else, running out for a packaged salad with everyone else, being chronically stressed and overextended like most everyone else).
Not necessarily. Clothing sends a message. You build that message on the pieces. If you have the same stuff to choose from, the nuances of a message can't be addressed. I know this all sounds silly, but I really believe it's true. Maybe the message is, "I don't give a f&ck" (about myself or what you think of me). But it can also say, "I'm too busy to think about personalizing my look" or "I'm strong and capable and I won't pull out any personal stuff during work."

But it goes beyond just clothing. How (or if) you take care of yourself also adds to the total impression. Is your hair clean and groomed? Do you take care of your skin? Are your nails grooomed? Do you add a little makeup (even lip gloss polishes a look) to finish the look?

Sorry - I get carried away sometimes. I work in appearance therapy and the whole subject of how others see us (and why) fascinates me.

Okay, I was with you all on the fashion, but I can't go there on the cooking. I hate cooking. LOL I don't have a lot of time, but if I really liked doing it, I'm sure I'd make the time. It's not like people who like to cook or shop for clothes all have just SOOOO much less to do in life than other people.

Really, I think with cooking, fashion, and other things, it just comes down to whether you are interested in it or not. I'm interested in fashion and not in cooking. Some others are interested in both or neither or other things.

I just find it irritating when other people make value statements about their effort of lack of effort in these areas, like they have so many more important things to do so couldn't be bothered, and therefore, there is necessarily something wrong with other people who like to spend time and money on it. (Or, conversely, like fashion or whatever is the most important thing to them and should be to everyone). Really, these things are hobbies. If someone is great at them or likes them, great. If someone isn't, who cares. Right?

And I agree with you, MC!

Right I really really try to not let the first physical impression dictate my behavior (except for the obvious dangerous signs). I have learned that there is something hard-wired in us that recognizes visual clues and makes judgments instantly. I don't use the word "judgements" in a negative way, by the way. But we do categorize and file impressions and we really don't have a lot of control over the first impression we receive. It's what you do with that information that matters.

Okay, now I need to get cleaned up and get out of here.

Oh, I agree, MC, you are totally right. I used to work in the courtroom, and really you would not believe the things jurors talk about. They ALWAYS notice clothes. I have even heard about them DELIBERATING over clothes.

First impressions shouldn't count but they do. I think you can make a good first impression dressing up, or dressing less fancy, as long as you look appropriate for whatever your situation is. I just like dressing up. Or at least I used to, before I got lazy. Like you said, I dress for ME.

I think what you're saying is something almost everyone would agree with (at least I definitely would, and I think most people I know!) and personally I think it is always better to be slightly overdressed than underdressed, but that is just me. Like you, I just don't get why so many more women seem to be judgmental of people who like to dress up these days.

That's why Tim Gunn is my hero.

I think this is the case with a lot of professional women, particularly ones working in traditionally male-dominated fields. One woman I know basically dresses most days like a poorly-dressed man - polo shirts and too-big khakis. I tend to think it's somewhat calculated - she wants to be judged on her merits, not on her appearance or her gender, so she dresses in the way many of the men working in her field dress. A lot of young professional women, particularly petite ones, are also concerned with looking older and thus having more credibility.

I remember preparing for trial on a very sensitive case as part of a trial team led by an extremely seasoned trial lawyer. A couple of days before the first day of trial, the lead lawyer held a meeting where he actually instructed us on what not to wear. No clothing that looked too expensive or flashy. Minimal jewelry for women. Conservative, plain suits, exposing minimal flesh. Nothing distracting - everything clean, pressed, mended.

I love this discussion. "Appearance therapy" sounds totally fascinating, MC.

Re. Bittermuch?'s mention of being instructed to wear nondistracting things in court, my husband took a nearly opposite tack as a high school teacher. He would always choose at least one unusual item, like a flashy or unusual tie, and subtly call attention to it while teaching. It was a way to hold the kids' attention. Now, what they did was make fun of it. He didn't care if they thought he was silly for wearing, say, a tie with Boston Terrier heads all over it, as long as he had their attention.

From an interview with Tim Gunn at http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/en...nways.html#more

Tim's makeover show is coming back, with some improvements:



P.S. You can buy a Tim Gunn bobblehead here: https://shop.emmettmccarthy.com/tim-gunn-bobblehead

I adore this guy. I didn't see the first season of his show but definitely plan to watch it this time around.

Seriously, Tim Gunn should rule the world. Fuck Obama AND Hillary - Gunn '08!

March 31, 2010
gossiplist.com

Celebrities are releasing books in droves it seems.

Project Runway star Tim Gunn signed his new book, ‘Models Inc’, at a Tribeca bookstore yesterday.